The Gaming Den

The Sword of Shannara trilogy. While it's a good read, it's also Lord of the Rings. We have Gandallanon meeting up in the Shady Vale Shire with Shea Baggins and Flickwise Gamgee, which they must flee after speaking with Balingorn (heir to a kingdom, in which there is the glorious city of Minas Tyrsis, which, like Helm's Deep, has never before been breached by invading forces) because they are pursued by a Skullwraith. Gandallon has given Shea a magical artifact (the Elfstones) that are extremely powerful but also pinpoint their location to the Warlock Sauron.

Shea and Flickwise meet up with another adventurer (Menion Leah), go into the woods, and they encounter the Watcher in the Water. Then they split up and Menion Leah gets KO'd by Old Man Willow, where he is rescued by Hendli. Shea and Flickwise nearly are caught by a Skullwraith, but they are rescued by Tom Bombadil (minus the singing).

Afterwards, there is a meeting of a council of the Free Races, and the group adds Legolas in the form of two elf brothers who contribute little to the plot. Then it's off to Paranor. On the way, they encounter Shelob the Cybernetic Spider, who stings Shea and Flickwise. Fortunately, neither die, but they are left comatose. After some helpful healing by gnomes, the party continues traveling. Then Shea falls over a waterfall and is captured by Gnomes. (I wonder if they had any orc draught on them.) Oh, and there's the Hall of Kings, the non-dwarf Moria that they pass through.

Still a good read, but it's very, very cliché fantasy.

Surgo wrote:Just finished the two books in Brandon Sanderson's Wheel of Time

SAFDKFHDSKFHDSFDS I have to wait another year for the last one? Agonizing!

Kind of makes me want to pick up more of Sanderson's work.

I'm almost done (about 9 chapters left) with Towers of Midnight. The wait will be HARD.

My wife said, "I feel bad saying it, but I almost wish Jordan had died sooner". Sanderson has seriously breathed some new life into that series.

Psychic Robot wrote:The Sword of Shannara trilogy. While it's a good read, it's also Lord of the Rings. We have Gandallanon meeting up in the Shady Vale Shire with Shea Baggins and Flickwise Gamgee, which they must flee after speaking with Balingorn (heir to a kingdom, in which there is the glorious city of Minas Tyrsis, which, like Helm's Deep, has never before been breached by invading forces) because they are pursued by a Skullwraith. Gandallon has given Shea a magical artifact (the Elfstones) that are extremely powerful but also pinpoint their location to the Warlock Sauron.

Shea and Flickwise meet up with another adventurer (Menion Leah), go into the woods, and they encounter the Watcher in the Water. Then they split up and Menion Leah gets KO'd by Old Man Willow, where he is rescued by Hendli. Shea and Flickwise nearly are caught by a Skullwraith, but they are rescued by Tom Bombadil (minus the singing).

Afterwards, there is a meeting of a council of the Free Races, and the group adds Legolas in the form of two elf brothers who contribute little to the plot. Then it's off to Paranor. On the way, they encounter Shelob the Cybernetic Spider, who stings Shea and Flickwise. Fortunately, neither die, but they are left comatose. After some helpful healing by gnomes, the party continues traveling. Then Shea falls over a waterfall and is captured by Gnomes. (I wonder if they had any orc draught on them.) Oh, and there's the Hall of Kings, the non-dwarf Moria that they pass through.

Still a good read, but it's very, very cliché fantasy.

It does feel pretty damn derivative, when you read it...that said, I also enjoyed it. And there were enough original elements to make it fun (wait until you meet Panamon Creel).

And the later books (some, at least) were actually decent (I think The Wishsong of Shannara was the best, but that may be my nostalgia talking...I think I had a man-crush on Garet Jax in high school).

Maxus wrote:The Baron was basically a damned stereotype made by running down a checklist of repulsive traits for someone to have. Obese? Check. Not as bright as he thinks? Check. Flaunts wealth and power in an obnoxious way? Check. Essentially homosexual? Check.

Maxus wrote:repulsive traits for someone to have

Maxus wrote:Essentially homosexual

And you don't think that is true for many people especially at the time it was written (1965)?

That's a stock villainous trait still used today, though mostly just in anime as far as I know.

erik wrote:And you don't think that is true for many people especially at the time it was written (1965)?

Sure. That doesn't stop "gay people are gross" from being a very dumb thing to say.

That said, I've reread the post that got me spergin' and realised that it isn't actually saying that gay people are gross, only that Dune thinks they are. So I guess the dumb thing around here is me.

Sorry about that, guy.

Baron Harkonnen wasn't a homosexual. He only liked children. He was a pedophile, not a homosexual.

Count Arioch the 28th wrote:Baron Harkonnen wasn't a homosexual. He only liked children. He was a pedophile, not a homosexual.

Makes a good deal more sense now.

...I still don't see the appeal of Dune...

PoliteNewb wrote:
It does feel pretty damn derivative, when you read it...that said, I also enjoyed it. And there were enough original elements to make it fun (wait until you meet Panamon Creel).

And the later books (some, at least) were actually decent (I think The Wishsong of Shannara was the best, but that may be my nostalgia talking...I think I had a man-crush on Garet Jax in high school).

I wasn't a huge fan of the Sword of Shannara, for basically the reasons outlined above (plus I didn't really like the style). However, I did enjoy his Running with the Demon trilogy. It takes place in modern times and hints at the apocalypse that transforms our world into the Shannara. It was modern fantasy before modern fantasy was really a big thing, I believe.

Count Arioch the 28th wrote:Baron Harkonnen wasn't a homosexual. He only liked children. He was a pedophile, not a homosexual.

At the time, I am pretty sure that a depressing amount of americans considered them to be the same thing.

PoliteNewb wrote:

Surgo wrote:Just finished the two books in Brandon Sanderson's Wheel of Time

SAFDKFHDSKFHDSFDS I have to wait another year for the last one? Agonizing!

Kind of makes me want to pick up more of Sanderson's work.

I'm almost done (about 9 chapters left) with Towers of Midnight. The wait will be HARD.

My wife said, "I feel bad saying it, but I almost wish Jordan had died sooner". Sanderson has seriously breathed some new life into that series.

If you think the wait is hard now, just wait until you read the Epiclogue.

Akula wrote:

Count Arioch the 28th wrote:Baron Harkonnen wasn't a homosexual. He only liked children. He was a pedophile, not a homosexual.

At the time, I am pretty sure that a depressing amount of americans considered them to be the same thing.

[ignorance]

Doesn't it depend on the gender of the child involved?

[/ignorance]

... Can we just all agree that Baron Harkonnen was a ridiculous mis-mash of "evil people" stereotypes?

Maj wrote:

Akula wrote:

Count Arioch the 28th wrote:Baron Harkonnen wasn't a homosexual. He only liked children. He was a pedophile, not a homosexual.

At the time, I am pretty sure that a depressing amount of americans considered them to be the same thing.

[ignorance]

Doesn't it depend on the gender of the child involved?

[/ignorance]

Every one of his picks mentioned in the book was a young man. He also kept thinking about how "lovely" his nephew was.

He struck me as more homosexual than pedophile.

And I'm cool with homosexuality, but it was like all the stops were pulled out to make him depraved.

And none of the humanizing touches found even in Piter, that Mentat assassin at the beginning.

I'm pretty sure the Baron was disgusted by women on top of it all, and did not take conventional pleasure in the shagging of a Bene Gesserit in a prequel book where he fathered Paul's mother. I think it is safe to declare him as a homosexual.

[edit: I think they actually had to coerce the Baron into doing the deed as the Bene Gesserit were somewhat bemused that his part in their bloodline experiments were going to be ruined because of his lack of desire to bed any woman.

I am now reading the Second Book of General Ignorance (by the QI team). Almost finished it, in fact.

It's excellent, especially with the intro by Stephen Fry (in his usual monologue style) explaining what the point of the book is: to encourage curiosity, questioning what we think we know because it could very well be false, just another "fact" we endlessly repeat.

A Hammer wrote:

erik wrote:And you don't think that is true for many people especially at the time it was written (1965)?

Sure. That doesn't stop "gay people are gross" from being a very dumb thing to say.

That said, I've reread the post that got me spergin' and realised that it isn't actually saying that gay people are gross, only that Dune thinks they are. So I guess the dumb thing around here is me.

Sorry about that, guy.

Apology accepted.

It's hard to phrase that sort of thing right, actually.

"Herbert wanted the average reader to see the Baron's family as depraved, so he thought about every trait most people would find undesireable. This being written when it was, the list included homosexuality."

I should have been clearer.

But yeah. Does anyone have any reasons I should even make an effort to continue the series?

Maxus wrote:But yeah. Does anyone have any reasons I should even make an effort to continue the series?

Not if you didn't enjoy the first one.

Jilocasin wrote:

Maxus wrote:But yeah. Does anyone have any reasons I should even make an effort to continue the series?

Not if you didn't enjoy the first one.

I'm ambivalent on it. It had genuinely neat bits. Herbert could make characters you care about.

So it's a wonder why he stopped bothering towards the end.

You might enjoy the prequels more for Dune. I had heard the later books panned so heavily that I avoided them entirely but found some enjoyment in the books set prior to Dune.

Am I the only one pissed off at the "I'm going to be really stupid because the plot needs me to be" at the end of Towers of Midnight. Specifically, Verin.

What the fuck did she need to make him promise to obey the instructions for? That was objectively less likely to make him open the letter than the statement "Promise to open and read the letter in three days." for no gain, because of course he would fucking shut down the waygate without being held to an oath.

That was just super stupid for no goddam reason, from someone who is supposed to be smart. Ruins the entire attacking Camelyn sub plot for me.

Other than that, very good book, wish RJ had kicked it earlier.

Best line:

"So you are using boots as a metaphor for the increased responsibilities and social complexities of being a lord."

"What? Metaphor nothing, they're just boots."

The Ghost in the Machine by Arthur Koestler - I haven't gotten far yet, but I do know that this is one of Koestler's works that builds somewhat upon Gilbert Ryle's work The Concept of Mind in its rejection of Cartesian dualism. The central theme I believe is explaining the false impression of duality as the actual aggregate of the human brain and body as well as outside evolutionary, social, linguistic, et al forces. So far he's been explaining and then lambasting Skinner's behaviorism school of psychology. It's actually not a dry read and quite entertaining so far. It was published in 1967 so it's interesting to look at the ideas in the book in contrast with the knowledge of brain chemistry and function we have today. I just checked the wikipedia article on it and it's apparently where Shirow Masamune got the whole "ghost" concept from.

Kaelik wrote:Am I the only one pissed off at the "I'm going to be really stupid because the plot needs me to be" at the end of Towers of Midnight. Specifically, Verin.

No, but thats almost a part of WoT, the stupid dont tell my allies anything thing...
So my conclusion is, that part was pre-written by Jordan...

That bothered me too, actually, but I'm hoping that was a "caught up in the taveren web" thing -- as in, Mat actually had to not be there. For some reason. I greatly expect this to be explained in the next book.